Casey Kaufman - Oakland PI Attorney

Louis Goodman / Casey Kaufman – Transcript

[00:00:00] Louis Goodman: Welcome to Love Thy Lawyer, where we talk with attorneys about their lives and careers. I'm your host, Louis Goodman. Today we welcome Casey Kaufman to the podcast. Mr. Kaufman practices personal injury law in a variety of matters, including vehicle accidents, traumatic brain injury, product liability, and wrongful death.

He has numerous published articles, starting with a law review note at USF. He is a former Super Lawyer Rising Star and now a Super Lawyer. He belongs to several professional associations for trial attorneys. Casey Kaufman, welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. 

[00:00:47] Casey Kaufman: Thank you for having me, Louis. 

[00:00:49] Louis Goodman: Pleasure to have you. Good to see you. Where are you speaking to us from right now? 

[00:00:55] Casey Kaufman: I am from my office in Alameda, actually off of Park Street. 

[00:00:59] Louis Goodman: Can you tell us a little bit about the type of practice that you have as you understand it?

[00:01:05] Casey Kaufman: Of course, most of my clients, if not all of them have been injured, usually physically by the actions of another. Certainly, there may be people who, there may be a combined fault element to it. But most of my clients are hurt and really don't know what to do next. 

[00:01:23] Louis Goodman: How long have you had this practice? 

[00:01:25] Casey Kaufman: I started my practice a few months before COVID in 2019. And I've been doing this type of work ever since I left law school in 2004.

[00:01:34] Louis Goodman: Where are you from originally? 

[00:01:36] Casey Kaufman: I'm from a suburb of Los Angeles named Palos Verdes. And I went to high school there. And then I came up to the Bay Area for college. 

[00:01:43] Louis Goodman: Where'd you go to college? 

[00:01:45] Casey Kaufman: Berkeley. 

[00:01:45] Louis Goodman: And what was your experience at Berkeley like having come from Southern California and now being very much in Northern California?

[00:01:54] Casey Kaufman: Well, I never left. So that's the start. I came up a little ready to have fun and it was a little wild and I had a great time at Berkeley. I met incredible friends and had incredible experiences while I was there. 

[00:02:06] Louis Goodman: When you graduated from Berkeley, you ultimately went to law school. Where did you go? 

[00:02:10] Casey Kaufman: I went to University of San Francisco School of Law, but before I did, I took two years off to try to figure out what I wanted to do. And I actually worked at a law firm in San Francisco as a paralegal. Well, first as a file clerk. And then eventually as a paralegal. 

[00:02:24] Louis Goodman: You must've enjoyed the work in the law firm to decide that you actually wanted to go on to law school. 

[00:02:30] Casey Kaufman: You know, I did. I really enjoyed the people I worked with. I really enjoyed how everybody worked together in response to common goals in an effort to respond to the other side and do it the right way for their clients. It was, it was really an enlightening experience, actually. 

[00:02:46] Louis Goodman: Do you think having taken a couple of years off and having worked in the legal field gave you a sense of focus about what you were doing in law school and gave you kind of a sense of where you were going?

[00:02:58] Casey Kaufman: You know, it really did. I always think of law school as like learning a language. It's kind of a vocational school at its most base. And I got a heads up and the lead into that language education. And also something that I didn't realize at the time, but it allowed me to kind of have every job along the step of the way in a firm.

So from file clerk to paralegal to ultimately lawyer, it allowed me to kind of feel like what it felt like to perform those jobs personally, instead of just from a managerial point of view. 

[00:03:29] Louis Goodman: When did you first start thinking about being a lawyer? 

[00:03:34] Casey Kaufman: You know, that's a, that's a good question. I went to college thinking I was going to be a doctor or something in the sciences.

And I actually was in the molecular and cell biology division of, at Cal, and I don't know that I had the drive necessarily to be as competitive as I needed to be in those classes, but I still loved science. I love the scientific approach. So I switched my major to environmental science, and that's actually the major I graduated with.

And so my romantic goal at the time was to become an environmental lawyer with that background. And I'm kind of thinking that having an understanding of the science behind it all, that it would help me along the way. 

[00:04:12] Louis Goodman: So it was while you were at Cal Berkeley that you started thinking about a career and thought, well, maybe the law would be a good fit in order to do this environmental science work?

[00:04:23] Casey Kaufman: Yeah, I think I had an, an advocacy bent to me at the time. And I didn't, you know, give it, given my experience and what I liked to learn about, it was within the environment, environmental law area, and I actually worked as an environmental intern or legal student during law school for a couple of different outfits, which actually dissuaded me from that line of work.

I learned through, through experience that maybe that wasn't the right thing for me. 

[00:04:53] Louis Goodman: What did your friends and family say when you told them, Hey, I'm going to law school, I want to be a lawyer? 

[00:04:58] Casey Kaufman: Mazel tov, I think was the general, the general consensus. I think that they were all very happy. I have a lot of doctors in my family. And so, I think that they were happy that I was going to have a professional pursuit and in the sense get serious, if you will.

[00:05:13] Louis Goodman: Instead of just cruising around Berkeley and, you know, doing that Northern California thing, right? 

[00:05:20] Casey Kaufman: Yeah, something like that. I think so. 

[00:05:22] Louis Goodman: Can you give us kind of a brief walkthrough of your career from the time you graduated from law school to the practice that you have now, this very active personal injury practice?

[00:05:34] Casey Kaufman: Sure, of course. I actually got the job out of law school from my trial practice professor. His name is Tom Brandy. And then, and I got that job before I passed the bar. And he needed a lawyer, and basically the message was Either pass the bar and I have a spot for you or, or don't, and maybe I don't. And so luckily I did pass the bar and I ended up staying there for 15 years.

It was a really a great experience. I think that I learned a ton about the law and about the what's behind the curtain, if you will, on how you get things done and how, at least from my point of view, in my line of work, how you apply the pressures that need to be applied. In order to get the outcome for your clients.

And so spent a long time there. We did a lot of different types of really higher end, higher value cases, lots of dangerous condition cases against the state for dangerous roads. A lot of our clients were horribly injured or have lost loved ones, very serious situations. And I was, I consider myself lucky to have been there and to have learned and to have been given what I consider to be a ton of responsibility for someone as an experience as I was.

Yeah. And then after about 15 years, I decided to, to leave and to hang my shingle. 

[00:06:45] Louis Goodman: You've been practicing law for quite some time. You obviously have the ability to do, you know, anything that you really want to do. What is it about practicing law that you like that keeps you as an attorney? 

[00:07:00] Casey Kaufman: You know, I actually think that I lucked into the type of law that I do because whenever I have a new client or a new factual situation, I have to deal with it requires strategy and requires kind of a fresh look, if you will, there's very little rote formulaic practice.

And so I really love that. I love, I love the uniqueness of the fact pattern, the uniqueness of what my clients may be going through, the uniqueness of what they may be looking for, frankly. I don't have a lot of clients that come to me and say, I can't wait to be in trial, for example, and then applying that to kind of the, the procedures and the standards that we all have to practice under, it's, it's something I really enjoy, and it keeps me really engaged.

[00:07:42] Louis Goodman: If a young person we're coming out of college, would you recommend going to law school, becoming a lawyer? 

[00:07:48] Casey Kaufman: You know, if that's what they were interested in, I would, and mostly because of the wide range of possibilities that someone has, the wide range of avenues, if you will, of law, there's so much you could do if, you know, for example, I know I have a lot of close friends who criminal law is their passion and they get to live that passion.

I have friends who don't want to deal with people at all and who enjoy contractual work, the transactional type of practice. And so, there's really a wide range, array of options, if you will, for, for someone that may be interested in. So I would support it, yeah. 

[00:08:22] Louis Goodman: How is actually practicing either met or differed from your expectations about it?

[00:08:27] Casey Kaufman: Oh, it's completely different. You know, once, when you, when you graduate law school, I remember this. When you graduate law school, you think, you know, everything and you absolutely don't. You know, the rules, you know, where to find the answers, but you don't have the real world application of how it works.

And, and the fact that when you're arguing to a judge, for example, or to their research attorney, there's a person there and, and there's a, I think fundamentally a desire to do the right thing. And, you know, in any circumstance and then maybe finding the right way to get there legally. And so it's, it was completely different and developing strategy on how to create your case, how to support your case, where to focus and where to disregard time.

Really, really, it was, it was really interesting and really an education after the education, as far as I'm concerned. 

[00:09:14] Louis Goodman: What about the business of practicing law, you know, for those of us who aren't in a government job or working for a corporation or a big firm where somebody else is, you know, doing the rain making, what about the business of practicing law?

How has that gone for you and have you enjoyed that aspect of it or not? 

[00:09:34] Casey Kaufman: As of right now, it's going well, but it really freaked me out quite a bit when I went out on my own because of our, the model of practice that, that I have is contingency. And so, I don't charge by the hour. I'm not able to make any income, for example, which drives all business, you know, without, without success.

And so. I think that added for me to the normally expected pressure of starting a business. And I think I mentioned it earlier, you know, I started my firm about six months before COVID. And so that added a whole level of stress that was completely unforeseeable on my account. But I think that over time, you know, I looked back on that time and I realized that it was the connections that I made. It was the relationships that I formed. You know, throughout my career and really enjoy that have enabled me to, to have a business that I consider to be successful. 

[00:10:24] Louis Goodman: Is there anything, you know, now that you really wished before you started practicing law? 

[00:10:28] Casey Kaufman: That's a big question. I had no idea what it was like. I thought, you know, when you're, when your idea of, of the law is limited to movies and TV, you know, just by virtue of exposure, you know, it's, it's different. I think that. I think that the fundamentals were there. The fundamentals were that, you know, you have to work hard period to do a good job. And I think that that made sense.

I think that at the beginning, at least for me, the learning curve was, was real steep and, and it was just something new every day. And I think there was a point where, where I felt like it was too much, and it was too big of a wave to take on. But when I look back on it, I don't think I really knew what it was like until I did it.

And I didn't think it was kind of impossible to know, frankly. 

[00:11:10] Louis Goodman: Yeah, I think lawyers all work hard. I was talking to a friend of mine who's a lawyer just over the weekend and we weren't on a podcast. We were just talking, and you know, we both mentioned how if you're a lawyer, it never stops. You know, there's no such thing as the weekend or the night or the middle of the night, you know, that somehow or other these cases follow you around and you're always thinking about it. You're always working something out in your mind. You're always like somehow paying attention to the case, to the client, to the other side. I don't want to say that I never can turn it off in any way. I can certainly turn it down. But I think for most of us, we spend a lot of time and a lot of really unpaid time really working pretty hard, even if it's in our own heads.

[00:11:59] Casey Kaufman: Yeah, I, I, I agree. It's, it's hard to get away from it. And especially, you know, like I, I have a family, I got, I have young kids. I try very hard to, to turn that off to be present, you know, it's hard to do. And, but at the same time, it's, you know, compartmentalizing. You know, you get better at it over, over time, but you never, never quite master it as far as

[00:12:21] Louis Goodman: I think that the positive side of that is one of the reasons that we don't turn it off is because it's interesting, you know, 

[00:12:29] Casey Kaufman: it's true. It's true. And, and, you know, sometimes you get enlightened by that random thought at two in the morning on how to approach something that's been a quandary for you. And so. And that sometimes, I know that for me, that happens a lot, unfortunately, and, but that, that's useful and it's actually effective. So, yeah, it's definitely there.

[00:12:50] Louis Goodman: Well, since you brought it up, let's talk a little bit about your family life and how the practice of law has fit into your family life, how your family situation has fit into the practice of law. Let's talk about that a little bit. 

[00:13:02] Casey Kaufman: Sure. I think that I have three kids, 12, 10, and seven, and. I very much enjoy being around.

And, and I think that, you know, when informing my own firm, it allowed me just really control over when I do the work, you know, the work's going to have to get done period, but it really allowed me to have just one more modicum of control over those things that most of the time are out of control, like time, et cetera.

And so, you know, I'll schedule whatever I can. In a way that fits into the family schedule, I will work, you know, in evenings when the kids are in bed, you know, I'll do those things, you know, in towards the effort of really being present and it's not always possible, but it's, it's something to strive for.

[00:13:50] Louis Goodman: Is there's something that you and your family like to do on kind of a recreational basis? 

[00:13:55] Casey Kaufman: You know, these days were all about activities. It's all, you know, soccer or dance or baseball or or, you know, whatnot. And so those, those kinds of, that's kind of the recreation, if you will, you know, we really do enjoy taking, you know, family trips when we can, but that's always around school and other, other responsibilities. And so, I think that, you know, once the school, I was just speaking with my wife about this.

Once school starts, it is on. It is like your time has gone and things like recreation or even downtime just seem to be up in smoke, if you will. 

[00:14:27] Louis Goodman: What do you think is the best advice that you've ever received and what advice would you give to a young attorney starting out?

[00:14:35] Casey Kaufman: I mean, I think that the best advice that I received, you know, in the law is, is just the devil is in the details. It always is. It always will be. And the better you know your case and your details, the better off you're going to do for your clients. And that's always rung true. And there's no shortcut around that. It really is just putting in the time making sure, you know, every corner of each file. The advice I would give to a newer attorney is kind of related.

I would suggest finding a mentor. I think that, and I've seen this a lot, you know, I look back and I've had some very influential mentors in my experience. And I think that they really shaped the way I practice, the ethics I practice, the, my view of the law and my role in it. And I think that particularly after COVID, everybody's kind of taken a step back and things remained on Zoom and you don't really go down the hall and you know, plop down and talk out your issues as much as, as before.

And so, I would say part one kind of, you know, see what you can do to find a mentor, to find some people to talk to about your cases, even if it's not a mentor. And the second thing I would say is that your reputation is everything. It's yours to make or break and how you conduct yourself with the particular attorney in that case, will it impact later cases? It's guaranteed. You know, there's a lot of lawyers who really slash and burn. And I think that that is, that's not the way I practice. And I would suggest people don't do that, do the exact opposite. 

[00:16:03] Louis Goodman: Do you think the legal system is fair? 

[00:16:05] Casey Kaufman: On the average? Yes, I do. I think that the system that's been created, frankly, is quite elegant, in its presentation. It's really, it's complicated, but ultimately given how wide of a range of application a legal system has, you know, from well beyond what I do, I think it ultimately is fair. I think that the thing that makes it unfair is not the system or the intent itself, but funding and resources.

And so I think that when it comes down to it. The lack of fairness that's kind of baked in has to do with, with access to justice or imperfect access. And so, for what it's worth. 

[00:16:46] Louis Goodman: Earlier, you mentioned how your exposure to law, I think like most of us before you actually went to law school or started practicing was through television and movies.

What sort of TV shows and movies do you associate with your first exposure to law? 

[00:17:03] Casey Kaufman: LA law, I remember loving it was such a dramatic and romantic thing. I remember it was Thursday nights, I think, you know, I, I loved that. Obviously, it has nothing to do with the practice of law. I actually, it's interesting in law school, there's a whole section on cross examination.

Or examination of a witness, I think it is. And they played My Cousin Vinny for us. And that's actually an excellent display of examining a witness, you know, and, you know, authenticating evidence and all those things. I can't watch anything anymore. It's too dramatic. It has nothing. It's so divorced from, you know, from the practice that it's hard to take seriously sometimes. 

[00:17:42] Louis Goodman: What mistakes do you think lawyers make?

[00:17:44] Casey Kaufman: I think fundamentally the, the concept that you don't make mistakes, you know, I think that you always have to be learning how you always have to be, you know, risk taking to a certain extent and, and learning from the things that don't work is essential and being willing to take those risks for things that maybe don't work also.

And again, what I touched on earlier, I think not creating relationships with opposing counsel, things like that, I think are mistakes because you're going to need something from them. You're going to need at one point, they're going to need something from you.

And it makes the, you know, if we're here to work on behalf of our clients, then that's in the best interest, I think, of our clients. 

[00:18:23] Louis Goodman: What sort of things keep you up at night? 

[00:18:25] Casey Kaufman: Oh man, so many things. You know, one of the things that always kind of bothers me is, and I think this has to do with, you know, just my universe in the law is just the random nature of how actions can impact people, right?

You know, I have so many clients who were just driving down the road when, you know, something terrible happened and yes, there may be negligence and who knows what, et cetera, they were just living their life. And I think that for many years, I wouldn't let my kids go on a trampoline, for example.

It's hard not to take that as something that can happen to me or my family, you know, the people that you love the most. And so that's something that I think has kept me up. Just almost the brutality is kind of shocking sometimes. 

[00:19:10] Louis Goodman: Can you think of someone who you'd really like to meet? Someone living or someone from the historical past who you'd really like to meet. 

[00:19:18] Casey Kaufman: Oh gosh, somebody living from the historical past. That's a question that's hard to answer. I think that I think more, more living, you know, I gotta say, I think Obama would be really fun to meet just to talk to him. I think he has a lot to say. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I'm prepared to answer both, unfortunately. 

[00:19:39] Louis Goodman: Let's say you came into some real money, like three or 4 billion dollars. What, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

[00:19:49] Casey Kaufman: Well, I would start with philanthropy, and I think that you have a responsibility for philanthropy if you have that kind of money, probably.

I don't know. You know, when you drive around the Bay area, you see a lot of people in a lot of dire straits that are unhoused, particularly in Oakland. I don't really know what, I don't know what the right answer would be, but maybe I would fund the people that do, and that would be able to spend that money for the furtherance of people that are truly in need, which I wish there's a lot.

And that's certainly more than me or my family could ever need. 

[00:20:20] Louis Goodman: Let's say you had a Magic Wand, there was one thing in the world, the legal world or otherwise, that you could change. What would that be? 

[00:20:27] Casey Kaufman: Oh my gosh. Oh man. I don't know. I think I would take guns out of the United States. I think I would start there.

And I know it's not everything, but I think that would make a lot of impact on a lot of people's lives. 

[00:20:39] Louis Goodman: Let's say you had 60 seconds on the Super Bowl. Someone gave you a Super Bowl ad, said Casey Kaufman, here's 60 seconds to say whatever you want to this enormous national audience. What would you want to say?

[00:20:54] Casey Kaufman: I would want to say get uninsured motorist insurance. It is a pet project of mine. I think that people aren't informed enough to protect themselves. And I think that that may be a big impact for a lot of people who get into an accident and there's not enough insurance to cover for them. However unromantic or unglamorous that may be, that's something of something I like.

It's something I like to counsel all my clients on and family members, frankly. 

[00:21:20] Louis Goodman: I've talked to a few tort lawyers on this podcast, and I think that for the most part they are the greatest promoters of the insurance industry that I've run across because, I mean, because they do recognize how dangerous it is to be underinsured.

[00:21:38] Casey Kaufman: It is. I have a ridiculous amount of insurance and in my, in my daily life, my professional life, I detest insurance companies. It's a very, it's very much a, you know, two sides of the coin thing, but I couldn't agree more. It is, it is essential because they are the financial institution that can maybe help you out if you, you know, if you find yourself in need.

[00:21:57] Louis Goodman: Yeah, I think it's sort of like with the criminal defense attorneys, we battle with the DAs and the cops on behalf of our clients. But boy, we're sure we're happy that they're there. 

[00:22:06] Casey Kaufman: Fair enough. I think it is similar. I remember looking for auto insurance for myself and trying to find the highest limits I could find anywhere, you know, despite, you know, like I said, you know, during the day fighting them tooth and nail.

[00:22:18] Louis Goodman: If someone wants to get in touch with you, Casey, have you represent them or maybe some attorney that is looking for a little guidance on a case, but for whatever reason, what is the best way to get in touch with Casey Kaufman? 

[00:22:32] Casey Kaufman: Sure. I would say my website, www.caseykaufmanlaw.com

C-A-S-E-Y-K-A-U-F-M-A-N-L-A-W.com. 

[00:22:45] Louis Goodman: So, Casey Kaufman Law, all one word. 

[00:22:51] Casey Kaufman: Yes. There were apparently many Casey Kaufman's who are lawyers. And so, I had to go for the long one. 

[00:22:57] Louis Goodman: And I suppose if we Google Casey Kaufman, Bay area, personal injury, we'll find you?

[00:23:03] Casey Kaufman: I sure can. Yeah, I should, I should pop up.

[00:23:06] Louis Goodman: Casey, is there anything that you want to talk about at all that we haven't discussed anything at all that you'd like to discuss, talk about? 

[00:23:13] Casey Kaufman: You know, I'd like to actually, thank you for having me on. And I think this is a really nice way to kind of get behind the persona or the web persona, or, you know, get to know people a little bit more. So besides that, no, I think that I appreciate being on. I appreciate being invited. 

[00:23:30] Louis Goodman: Casey Kaufman, thank you very much for joining me today on the Love Thy Lawyer podcast. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. 

[00:23:36] Casey Kaufman: Likewise. Thank you very much, Louis. 

[00:23:38] Louis Goodman: That's it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend and follow the podcast. If you have comments or suggestions, send me an email. Take a look at our website at lovethylawyer.com where you can find all of our episodes, transcripts, photographs, and information. Thanks to my guests and to Joel Katz for music, Brian Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media and Tracy Harvey.

I'm Louis Goodman.

[00:24:19] Casey Kaufman: But I don't know. I frankly, I forgot the scope of the question a little bit.