Givelle Lamano - Golden Gate

Louis Goodman / Givelle Lamano – Transcript

Louis Goodman 00:03 

Welcome to Love Thy Lawyer, where we talk to attorneys about their lives and careers. I'm Louis Goodman. Today, Givelle Lamano joins us on the podcast. Givelle is a Bay Area criminal defense attorney with offices in Oakland. She's represented people from all walks of life, from gang members in prison to those who have never before been arrested. She is a Super Lawyer Rising Star, an Avvo Client's Choice and has published in magazines, including Forbes. She is a strong advocate for women in the legal community and sits on the Board of Directors for Legal Services for Prisoners with Children. Givelle Lamano, welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. 

Givelle Lamano 00:54 

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Louis Goodman 00:56 

It's a pleasure to have you. I always enjoy seeing your posts on social media and seeing people like yourself and people who work for you in court. So it's nice to talk to you in person. Where are you speaking to us from right now? 

Givelle Lamano 01:14 

From home in Jack London Square, Oakland. 

Louis Goodman 01:18 

Where's your office located?

Givelle Lamano 01:20 

Our main office is in Oakland, right across from Wiley. We have other virtual offices throughout the Bay Area. 

Louis Goodman 01:26 

So it's pretty easy for you to get from your house to your office? 

Givelle Lamano 01:30 

It's a, probably a stone's throw away, just a couple of blocks. I can walk there, but yeah, I'm very close to Franklin and Broadway, which is what, four blocks away from Wiley and five blocks away from my office. 

Louis Goodman 01:43 

Can you describe what sort of practice that you have? 

Givelle Lamano 01:48 

Well, it's a hundred percent criminal defense. 

Louis Goodman 01:51 

How many people work for you? 

Givelle Lamano 01:53 

Technically we are five employees, but we also have a lot of contractors that we work with as well. 

Louis Goodman 01:58 

And how long have you been doing this sort of work?

Givelle Lamano 02:00 

I think almost 12 years now. 

Louis Goodman 02:02 

Where are you from originally? 

Givelle Lamano 02:04 

I was born in the Philippines, from a province named Batangas, specifically from a barrio named Leon, and I later moved to Los Angeles where I was raised. 

Louis Goodman 02:13 

So did you go to high school in the Philippines or in Los Angeles? 

Givelle Lamano 02:17 

No, I went to high school in Los Angeles. I went to six different high schools. Fairfax High School in Hollywood, Taft High in Woodland Hills, Bernada High in the San Fernando Valley, and then two continuation schools, or what people call alternative comprehensive high schools for students considered at risk for not graduating at the normal pace. Thoreau in Woodland Hills and Walt Whitman Continuation in Hollywood. So six total high schools. 

Louis Goodman 02:43 

Well, when you finally graduated from the entire Los Angeles Unified School District, did you go to college right away or did you take some time off?

Givelle Lamano 02:53 

No, I didn't take time off. I started at Pierce Community College in, I believe it's Woodland Hills and then onto Los Angeles Valley College and Van Nuys. And then I got my bachelor's at a small private school in Burbank called Woodbury University. So, no breaks, just straight to, straight to community college and then university. 

Louis Goodman 03:15 

Well, what was that experience like? I mean, it sounds to me like, I don't know, you sort of had some questions about where you were going within the education system at that time in your life.

Givelle Lamano 03:25 

That's a very generous way of putting it. I was essentially lost, is a more accurate way of putting it mostly because in growing up in a Filipino household, there was a lot of emphasis on the importance of education, but there wasn't really a lot of guidance as to how to do that. So, you know, when I went to law school prior to that, I didn't know what the LSAT was, I didn't know, I never took my SATs, you know, graduating high school from a continuation school, you know, for students that were at risk, there wasn't a lot of guidance on to how to get into the best colleges. And so whoever I was dating at the time ended up showing me how to enroll into community college. And then from there, I figured out how to enroll in classes and just use guidance counselors to help me navigate the academic journey. And after being in community college for, I think, generally, it's supposed to be 2 years. I was there for probably 3 or 4 years. I figured out that I guess I should transfer to a university. And going to university was more of a, not a choice, it was more who would take me. So there was a expensive private school that was willing to take my money and I was glad to have that privilege. 

Louis Goodman 04:32 

Now when you graduated from the expensive private school, did you go directly to law school or did you take some time off?

Givelle Lamano 04:40 

I went directly to law school as far as the traditional route of taking LSAT preparation courses, taking the LSAT and applying to law schools. There wasn't a break, but it wasn't direct in that there were schools waiting to accept me because I had done all of that during my last years at university. So quasi direct. 

Louis Goodman 04:59 

And where did you go to law school? 

Givelle Lamano 05:01 

I went to Golden Gate University School of Law in San Francisco. 

Louis Goodman 05:05 

What was it like coming to San Francisco after spending pretty much your entire life up to that point in Los Angeles? 

Givelle Lamano 05:15 

You know, it's interesting people in L.A. Don't really think about people in San Francisco or the Bay Area the way that people in the Bay Area think about people from L. A. There's a, there's a almost a bias involved. I noticed when I moved to San Francisco of, you know, some negative connotation, like, oh, you're from L.A. you know, where everybody is just, you know, so I'm, Hollywood or fake and into themselves and into appearance and images. And I didn't really understand that until having spent, you know, a couple of years in the Bay area where I realized, you know, LA had a reputation that had, you know, some foundation to it, you know, there is a lot of looks and appearances and a different culture, I guess you would say. So coming to the Bay Area helped me surround myself with different people and really understand where I came from.

And a mix of that was not just the LA girl in me, but the Filipina girl in me. When I went to law school, there was one other Filipina law student. So it really, it was new and it was different and I learned a lot, but you know, it would have been the same had I gone to any state, out-of-state school. It was just Northern California versus Southern California. 

Louis Goodman 06:21 

How was your experience at Golden Gate? 

Givelle Lamano 06:23 

It was good. Looking back at it, I say it was good because it took me out of my element, but in the first year of law school, well, let me back up. I was waitlisted to Golden Gate University School of Law. And so I got accepted a few weeks before the first year, first semester started. So I rushed to San Francisco, just happy to get accepted into a law school and in the first year I was put on academic probation. So that was a bummer. But I also remember the first year we were not supposed to be working and having a job in the first year of law school, but I was working three restaurant jobs to try to make ends meet.

So it was sink or swim. It helped build resilience and character and altogether was a good experience because I learned a lot, but it was actually very hard because I later learned that I had some learning disabilities and that that explained why I wasn't doing so well academically. 

Louis Goodman 07:19 

When did you first start thinking about being a lawyer?

Givelle Lamano 07:25 

It was when I was studying abroad in Italy. I was scared about being a full blown adult as I was nearing my graduation in college. So the idea of entering the workforce was actually scarier than signing up for hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans for the possibility of what a lot of people in the country I was born in consider a prestigious career.

So looking back, I realized I was buying myself time because I didn't know who I was and choosing a career was hard when I wasn't comfortable in my own skin or in my own intuition. 

Louis Goodman 07:56 

What did your friends and family think or say when you told them I'm going to law school? 

Givelle Lamano 08:01 

My family was wondering why I just didn't get a safe job at the carpet store, like my stepsister who worked as a manager there. I think my immediate family was scared that I would fail as a lawyer and my friends at the time thought I was courageous because I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. But like I said, I learned later that I had a lot of learning disabilities and read slower and process information slower than the average person. So, you know, I could see why they were scared, but I think now they're pretty proud of me. 

Louis Goodman 08:31 

I just think law school is hard for everybody. Overcoming some things while you're in law school makes it even more difficult. So I salute you. What was your first legal job after you got out of law school? 

Givelle Lamano 08:48 

Out of law school my first legal job was working for other attorneys, other private attorneys. I was just trying to get my feet wet, so any job that somebody would give me, I would take. I didn't work for the Public Defender's Office, so I knew I needed to find my voice in court, and so anybody that was willing to give me a shot, I was, you know, honored to help with. 

I remember some attorneys would send me all the way to Manteca or Stockton just to go on the record and continue something on the record, but I was happy to drive that hour and a half- or two-hour drive to any courthouse just to get on the record for a few seconds and get my feet wet. But, yeah, in summary, my first job was for other attorneys who were kind enough to give me a shot. 

Louis Goodman 09:30 

How did that develop into opening your own practice, which obviously now is really quite a successful practice from everything that I can see. How did that work out? I'm wondering if you could walk us through that process a little bit. 

Givelle Lamano 09:45 

Sure. So to start, I remember when I was actually licensed as an attorney, given a state bar number, I was working two restaurant jobs, one at night and then one for brunch. And during the day I joined the Alameda County Listserv, where people would post, you know, need somebody to continue or need somebody to stand in. And I would just ask people if they would let me appear for them. And I also asked if I can second chair trials or watch motions. 

I was hungry and ambitious. And ultimately what I wanted was for somebody to see my potential and hopefully hire me even as a contractor that did work for them regularly. But a couple of people gave me regular appearances to do for them, but nobody actually offered me formal employment that I can rely on to quit my restaurant jobs. So it got to a point where I ended up joining the conflicts panel for Alameda County, and what I found is that a lot of the people that I represented through the conflicts panel would call on me and ask me to represent them in another case outside of the conflicts panel.

And so slowly through other attorneys that had an overflow of work, and through the clients that I met through the conflicts panel, I started taking on my own clients. And that was where law offices of Givelle J. Lamano was formed. And then it became Lamano Law Office. 

Looking back, I should have just named it something else instead of Lamano law office, because when people hire us, they don't necessarily get represented by me. So yeah, that's what happened. I just started my own practice and working with business coaches and trying to figure out what worked. 

Louis Goodman 11:23 

In a lot of ways you have become a very successful business person, and business legal marketer. Well, if I'm wrong about that, correct me, but I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that process, how that works and how people feel when they say, okay, I'm going to hire Lamano Law. And then as you just mentioned, sometimes another attorney is actually doing most of the in-court work. 

Givelle Lamano 11:56 

So the two questions that I heard were marketing, something about success and people hiring us thinking that it may be me. With the successful part, thank you. I think everybody has a different definition of success. For me professionally success means or is measured by the longest time that I can be away from work and still have it run and operate successfully and profitably and, you know, personally, that's something different as to what success means. But as far as a marketer is concerned, I appreciate that, but I don't really consider myself any type of a marketing expert.

A lot of the marketing for our firm is done by people on our team, whether it's our executive assistant or research and development, people that I hire to do search engine optimization or local service ads, branding. So all of the social media posts that you see, it's not me posting it, so I can't take credit for it.

And so, I have to remind myself that a lot of the successes when it comes to marketing, isn't my work necessarily. It's just the part that I had in it is just putting the right people in the right seats who are good at what they do. And the same applies when it comes to people hiring our firm. When people contact us and they hire us, they know that it's not going to be me who is going to be representing them in court because it's part of our intake process. And we're very organized when it comes to standard operating procedures and our advisements to potentially new clients. 

So if they're from Contra Costa, or if they're from Alameda County, or if they're in Department X we have checklists to ensure that we're telling our clients, you know, everything that we've learned applies to them. And at the end or in the beginning, depending on where it's communicated, people know that they're hiring a firm, that they're not hiring a solo practitioner. And most of the time, the people who are representing them are people that have been in practice longer than I have, that are my mentors, that they're in better hands in, you know?

So even though it's my name on the door, I'm actually the baby of the bunch and putting the right people on the right seats that are smarter than me has, I think, been part of the key factor into why some people would call us successful. 

Louis Goodman 14:16 

I don't think you give yourself sufficient credit here. I'm just being really straight about this.  Well, let me put it this way. Somebody has coordinated that SEO. Somebody has coordinated the social media posts. Somebody has coordinated the attorneys. Ultimately, at the center of all of this is Givelle Lamano, and so I would like, I would like to know, I mean, for no other reason than myself, I'd like to know a little bit about How you see that process, how you develop that process and where you see yourself as being in the center of this constellation, because without you, it doesn't seem to me that it works.

Givelle Lamano 15:09 

Right. And my husband reminds me that humility keeps us grounded and practicing law as a reminder of that when I think of where I come from and how far I've come. So I appreciate you saying that I don't give myself enough credit. But, you know, like I said, putting the right people in the right seats is important. And when I think about my journey into Lamano Law office, you know, the first few years was me getting my footing and figuring out what worked and what didn't work. A lot of the success came from experience and failing and in the fourth or fifth year mark I was very strategic about accelerating and execution and visions and goals and hopes and aspirations. And towards the end, a lot of it became more execution, even when it came to like pivots and COVID.

I believe that in every business, it doesn't matter if you are a carwash or a law firm, there's minders, grinders, and finders. And the minders are the ones that think about the big top level vision for the business. What's important to us. And you know, what's our branding?

What do we stand for? What are our values? And then the grinders are the gladiators that are in the courtroom fighting and getting the work done. And then the finders are the marketing, making it so that our phones are ringing and that our conversion rate and, you know, are that we're profitable.

And so when I think about those three things, grinding isn't necessarily my strongest point. Like I said, I had a lot of learning disabilities, and it takes me slower to read case law and motions than my counterparts. So what I like to focus on is the minding and the finding and what I mean by the minding is, you know, I knew firsthand what it was like growing up in lower middle class neighborhoods where I saw a lot of my friends fall into the traps of early pregnancy and drugs. You know, there's a lot of people in my family that didn't have the opportunities that I did to go to law school. 

And so part of my vision, you know, I look to our values as our North star, having integrity and saying what you mean and meaning what you say, even if it means that you're telling the potentially new client that we're not a good fit and, or you should go with the Public Defender's Office if you're trying to live check to check, and you qualify for the Public Defender's Office. 

So, you know, the minding part is really just my own personal values. And the finding part is the marketing and the marketing mix, omni channel marketing, SEO, you know, branding, what we stand for, our unique selling propositions, all of that stuff has come from business coaching. And I've had several business coaches throughout my career and I've pulled little things from here and there, but part of my learning disabilities also include not just being slower, but being more mindful and intentional about what the bigger point in the picture is because I think it comes with the territory of criminal defense that it could be very sad and, and it could break your heart some of the things that you hear and see. So I have to try to remind myself when I learn something, what's the bigger picture? How am I going to use this in alignment with my values? 

You said earlier, Louis, in your instructions, you know, not to give these long tangents, and so I apologize that I did that, but you know, I, I hope that answered your question. I think I talked about the success part, the marketing part, and then the business part. Did that answer your question? 

Louis Goodman 18:45 

Yeah, I think it did. When I look at your stuff on the internet. I see things that are, you know, there are things that all of us as attorneys can really learn from. Because one of the things that I think, and I've said this before on this podcast, and it's not original, actually, I I've gotten it mainly from a guy named Steve Fretzin, but it's the notion of a lawyer should have his or her own book of business.

And that by having one's own book of business we insulate ourselves from somebody else being able to deprive us of our ability to earn a living as a lawyer. And if we're the person that brings in the business, the so-called rainmaker, then I think that, you know, being the finders, you can always hire lawyers. You can hire the entire graduating class of Stanford law if you know, you have enough clients. And so I just think that those kinds of skills are, are really important. And sometimes things that we lose sight of as practicing attorneys because, you know, those of us that don't work for the District Attorney or the Public Defender, we have to run businesses, whether we want to or not. 

Givelle Lamano 20:06 

Right. And, you know, early in my career, as I was observing a lot of my mentors and how they operated as far as business was concerned, you know, I remember my first job working for an attorney in San Francisco and he didn't pay me anything, actually, I was just trying to help him with his website, even though I had no website experience. But I remember listening to a call that he had with a client and observing, the idea that people will forget what you did, but they won't forget how you made them feel. And as attorneys, we have a privilege the same way that doctors do in that, you know, we're better versed at understanding how the procedures work legally or medically.

And I I'm sure for me personally, I've gone to a medical appointment where I was vulnerable and you know, all this language is being used and you know, the bedside manners is what they don't teach us in law school. And so when I saw how a lot of attorneys were operating, what I noticed was that a lot of my competitors were older white men who probably have never been arrested or who have never been in the legal system or knew somebody who was arrested or, you know, was part of the school to prison pipeline. And so I started using my experience in customer service, working at restaurants, and I've had probably 75 jobs before becoming a lawyer. And, you know, I went to six different elementary schools and five different junior high schools. I mean, I'm always the new girl moving around and the experience of learning how to talk to people, how to listen to them, how to make them feel seen and heard, that is what builds your book of business.

Because, you know, at the end of the day, sales is love. And what I mean by that is if you are talking to somebody who's in a vulnerable situation, specifically being accused of criminal charges outside of trying to close a sale and being a finder, if you're able to explain the law to them in plain English so that they are not walking into the courtroom with sweaty palms and can at least know how to tell the judge, you know, I need some more time to hire a lawyer or knows what an arraignment means. You've empowered them and given them love the way that you would your own loved one and your own friends. 

And so people that hired us or didn't hire us 12 years ago call us today because they remember the attorneys that cared, that explained to them in plain English what to expect, gave them resources and treated them the way that I think a lot of Filipino treat people generally, it's all about love and community and being tribal. And, you know, that's part of our branding, knowing that people know that we care regardless of whether we take their case or not. 

And there are some cases that are more sophisticated than what we can handle, and in those situations we say, this isn't the best fit for us. You should work with an attorney who works in that jurisdiction locally or has had experience in these types of cases. People remember that you had integrity and that you cared about them, and that builds your book of business because there aren't many attorneys out there that will be quick to just give up on a sale and say, let me take the case, with hopes that the person will come back around 12 or 15 years later or not.

Louis Goodman 23:16 

You have very good business skills. You could be in any business that you wanted. What is it that you really like about being in the legal business, practicing law? What is it that keeps you here in the law? 

Givelle Lamano 23:30 

I think the biggest thing that I like about it is it's a mix of both who I used to be and who I am and who I want to be. I remember days where I had to dig behind couches to look for a dollar and seven cents to buy a 99-cent burger from Carl's Jr. And couldn't even afford to put cheese on that burger for 25 cents and would bring my own slice of cheese from home and split that slice of cheese among my siblings and make it work.

So practicing law is a privilege and I recognize that I have that privilege and when I think about, well let me give an example. We have a lot of people who call our firm who don't hire us that give us 5-star reviews even when they don't hire us because it feels good to give love. What I'm hard at is receiving love.

So if somebody calls our firm, I've never met them. We're on the phone. We've been on the phone for 45 minutes and they get off the phone and they have a little bit more of peace of mind, even if they didn't hire us because they know what to expect in their first court date or, you know, what the worst-case scenario or best-case scenario or likely scenario is, it makes me feel good about myself. The way that you feel good when you help somebody in need. So that is what mainly keeps me in law and. It's, it just humbles me, you know, to know that I have that privilege, similar to when I was waiting for the bar exam results or when I took the bar. My aunt said, just remember, it's a privilege to sit at that seat and take that test.

So I'm always trying to stay humble and grateful for, for just the knowledge that I can give other people the way that it was given to me. 

Louis Goodman 25:04 

If a young person were coming out of college thinking about a career choice, would you recommend the law? 

Givelle Lamano 25:10 

That's such a good question, and a typical lawyer answer is it depends. Is being a lawyer the type of profession where you have a balanced life? Not historically. What type of law do they want to practice? You know, do they want to, I mean, if you want to make money, go into big law, personal injury, that type of thing. You know, what's important? 

You know, when I first started, I didn't know what I wanted. And I know that personal development precedes professional development. And I had to really look deep within and ask myself what's important to me. So if somebody from college said they wanted to be a lawyer, my answer wouldn't be yes or no. It would be why. Is it for status? Is it for money? Is it for, you know, to make your parents happy or because you're afraid to start adulthood the way that I did? And then go backwards from there because if it's for money, then it's going to come at the expense of your time. And if it's for status, you know, why is it important to have status?

And I guess just moving backwards and a lot of people in college, depending on their life experiences don't really know who they are and what they want and what's important to them. So, one of the best pieces of this pieces of advice that a mentor gave to me when I first was embarking in my career is explore all the different avenues of work that you can, that you can to figure out what works, cause it sucks when you want to go into law because your family wants you to go into law. There's a generation that you have to, you know, follow. And then you realize you don't even like it because you just want to be an artist and play the ukulele. I don't know. 

Louis Goodman 26:40 

Well, assuming someone decides they do want to be a lawyer and they don't want to just be an artist and play the ukulele, what advice would you give to that young attorney just starting out?

Givelle Lamano 26:51 

I mean, if money was an issue, because embarking on a legal career and law school costs a lot of money. I would recommend if that person was in California to look into an apprenticeship program that has recently been available to California residents, because if that was available to me 15 years ago, I would have found a law firm and said, Hey, I'm going to work for you guys for free, I'm going to put the curriculum together. I'm going to make it so easy for you guys so that I can have some real, you know, life experience working in a law firm. That would be my first advice to somebody who had financial concerns and was in California. 

For somebody who didn't have that, you know, you can't teach hungry. And I would suggest that they find the appetite to go and intern, even if it's for free, to see what it's like to work at a solo practice at a small law firm, a boutique law firm, a large law firm, you know, go out and see it because people want to be a pilot, but you know, they don't know they're afraid of heights or, you know, you know, just go out and try.

I think that, again, coming from a Filipino background, because that highly defines me there in the Philippines, there's a lot of pointing fingers when you fail versus in America where you fail, you know, it's part of the process. So I would recommend just failing as much as you can and figuring out what works, especially where the stakes aren't as high.

Louis Goodman 28:14 

Do you think the legal system's fair? 

Givelle Lamano 28:16 

No, hell no. Definitely not. Most of our clients stay out of jail or prison because they have the financial resources to hire a team of lawyers to defend them. There's people who can't afford that, that are locked up in prison for life because of their income, race, or background. And the Public Defender's Offices are, you know, they're so overwhelmed with their caseloads that it's just a mixed bag of messed up for people who are just trying to survive and make ends meet. 

So, you know, of course there's expectations, Louis, we know that there are people who deserve to be locked up and die in prison, but statistically a lot of people are locked up because of race, finances, socioeconomic status. So no, I don't think it's fair. 

Mandatory minimums, three strikes law, a lack of restorative justice. You know, there's a reason that the United States is four and a half percent of the world's population, but currently houses 20 percent of its prisoners. 

No, I don't think it's fair. And I think it's, I don't think the scales of justice are even at all. 

Louis Goodman 29:08 

I want to shift gears here a little bit. What's your family life been like and how has practicing law fit into your family life? How's your family life fit into your practice of law? 

Givelle Lamano 29:19 

Well, I recently got married. I work part time now, so I love slow mornings. I love getting up in the morning and having my coffee, working out, meditating, journaling, reading for fun, swimming. It's balanced now. But, Louis, I had to hustle to get here. So it came at, it came at a lot of expenses. 

You know, when I first started my, I lost a lot of friends. I lost a lot of close friends because I put business before my personal life, but I needed to do that to hustle. So family life is more balanced now, but I didn't meet my husband until COVID. And that COVID really shifted the way that I saw things because, you know, if you look at someone's bank account and their calendar. You know, we can see what, what's important to them and for me, but anyway, when it comes to family, it's balanced. It's good. I'm happy. I'm also Filipino and we're very tribal. So there's always a party somewhere and some celebration somewhere and some gathering somewhere. So life is good family-wise. 

Louis Goodman 30:26 

What mistakes do you think lawyers make? 

Givelle Lamano 30:30 

A lot, but I would have to speak from personal experience because, you know, I don't know. Some mistakes that lawyers make is, I feel like going to law school is like being in the military. You can't undo what you learned. You know, people in the military, they fold clothes a certain way and they're, you know, punctual and on time. When you go to law school, you just learn how to be objective and analytical, that it takes the heart out of things, you know? And I think that as a human, we have our intellect, our heart, our body, and our spirit, and I think a lot of lawyers nurture the intellectual side more than they do their physical health, listening to their gut and their heart and their intuition and listening to their spirit.

And so I think the mistake that a lot of lawyers make is getting so caught up in the details and the weeds of the analysis that we don't really take a step back and look at the big picture and ask ourselves what's really important. So that's 1 mistake that I think a lot of lawyers make. Another one, especially for early lawyers is thinking you have to know it all.

I think the best lawyers are the ones that admit that they actually don't know a lot. And our clients often think of us as a messiah who knows anything about everything and all sorts of different laws. And there's a value of just saying, I don't know. 

So for younger lawyers, I think the biggest mistake is thinking that you have to know everything. For more seasoned lawyers, I think it's putting work before our physical health more than anything. I think that not just as lawyers, but as Americans, there's a huge emphasis on work, work, work, work, work. And there just needs to be more of a balance, which is hard as lawyers. 

Louis Goodman 32:16 

What sort of recreational things do you do to try and balance things out a little bit?

Givelle Lamano 32:21 

So I swim three times a week, and that is a very calming sport for me because I'm just focused on my breath when I'm swimming. I'm huge on dance. I was a cheerleader in high school. I was in a dance group as a teenager. So I go to a lot of dance classes. My husband and I love live music. We're always going to Yoshi's across the street from us to listen to live bands. He plays his ukulele when I'm like worried about XYZ and reminds me to chill more. 

Louis Goodman 32:48 

Let's say you came into some real money, three or four billion dollars. What, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

Givelle Lamano 32:58 

You know, I've heard you ask other people that question, and I thought about it. You know, outside of the usual, bigger pad, more help, you know, a more comfortable, luxurious lifestyle, you know, after a while that gets played out. So probably just give back, you know, more than anything, probably get involved with more of the nonprofits that my husband and I serve on and try to figure out how to move the needle forward on the things that we believe in and want to fight for. I don't know. It gets played out after a while. I'm sure having a lot of money, but who knows? I have never had a lot of money. 

Louis Goodman 33:33 

Well, what if you had a magic wand and you could change one thing in the world, the legal world or otherwise, what would that be? 

Givelle Lamano 33:39 

I wish we could talk to animals because they're so smart and have a lot to teach us. 

Louis Goodman 33:44 

Well, a lot of money couldn't buy you any insight into the thinking of an animal, but a magic wand might be able to do that.

Givelle Lamano 33:52 

Yes, but you know what a lot of money could also do is buy me experts who would be able to tell me whether this has been tried in the past and what the what the metrics are and you know what the numbers are to try to figure that out. I mean, the one thing that I've noticed for sure is that there's a lot of things that I don't know, but there's a lot of people out there who do know what I don't know, and you can pay all those people to figure it out. 

Louis Goodman 34:17 

If you had 60 seconds on the Super Bowl, someone gave you a Super Bowl ad and you had an opportunity to say something to that enormous audience, what would you want to say? 

Givelle Lamano 34:31 

I realized how important it is to be present and really spend time with the people that matter and to use that time. Because I think anybody who's ever lost a loved one, you know, knows that time can't be given back. I mean, it can be bought. It can't be given back. So it'd probably be some kind of persuasive statistical information delivered by somebody else giving the message about the importance of time and spending it with what really matters because, when we die, no one's going to say, Oh, you know, Givelle Lamano had a successful law firm, you know, and met her key performance indicators and metrics. No, I wanted to say, you know, Givelle was incredibly successful, generous and kind and whenever I walked away from her, I felt good about myself.

Louis Goodman 35:18 

If someone wants to get in touch with you or your firm, what's the best way to do that? 

Givelle Lamano 35:25 

The easiest way to get in contact with us is through our link tree. The website is L I N like Nancy K T R dot EE slash Lamano Law, L A M A N O L A W. 

Louis Goodman 35:44 

Great. And I would just say, just on a personal level, when I've tried to get in touch with you, I was able to just put your name into Google and all of your information came right up for me.

Givelle Lamano 35:57 

Yes. There's not a lot of Givelles out there, so if you just type the name, G I V like Victor, E L L E. I'm sure Lamano Law will come up. 

Louis Goodman 36:07 

Givelle Lamano, thank you so much for joining me today on the Love Thy Lawyer podcast. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. 

Givelle Lamano 36:15 

It's been a pleasure to speak with you and thank you for the opportunity. I'm very grateful. 

Louis Goodman 36:19 

That's it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend and follow the podcast. If you have comments or suggestions, send me an email. Take a look at our website at lovethylawyer.com, where you can find all of our episodes, transcripts, photographs and information.

Thanks to my guests, and to Joel Katz for music, Bryan Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media and Tracy Harvey. I'm Louis Goodman.

Givelle Lamano 36:58 

Whoa, that was a loaded question. Say that again. There were a couple of different questions there and I want to make sure I answer them.