Josh Brumley - Protect Your Neck

Louis Goodman / Josh Brumley – Transcript

Louis Goodman 00:04 

Welcome to Love Thy Lawyer, where we talk with attorneys about their lives and careers. I'm Louis Goodman. Today, we welcome Joshua Brumley to the podcast. Mr. Brumley is a native of the Pacific Northwest and practices in Washington State. He is a barrister member of the American Inns of Court, a member of several bar associations and is served as a judge pro tem.

He is the managing attorney at the Brumley Law Firm and has recently written a book about personal injury law that will prove useful to both plaintiffs and attorneys. Joshua Brumley. Welcome to Love by Lawyer. 

Josh Brumley 00:47 

Thanks for having me, Louis. 

Louis Goodman 00:48 

Thanks for being on. Where are you speaking to us from right now?

Josh Brumley 00:52 

Uh, my office in Seattle, Washington. 

Louis Goodman 00:56 

Can you tell us a little bit about your practice? How do you describe your practice? 

Josh Brumley 01:01 

I'm a car crash attorney and I focus my practice. I was a general practice attorney for a number of years. I even did criminal defense. I was a Public Defender. It's a remarkable area to practice, but it's really tough to be a criminal defense attorney and collect money from your clients. I preferred collecting money from insurance companies. So that's how I transitioned. 

Louis Goodman 01:24 

Where are you from originally? 

Josh Brumley 01:26 

The Seattle area. Yeah, I'm a Washington native. I moved away to go to law school in Florida. I was in Jacksonville, Florida for my MBA and for my law school. And then moved right back, had to come back to the Northwest.

Louis Goodman 01:40 

What high school did you go to? 

Josh Brumley 01:42 

Curtis high school in University Place. 

Louis Goodman 01:45 

So when you graduated from Curtis CHS, where did you, where'd you go to college? 

Josh Brumley 01:50 

My undergrad was university of Washington. And then I went away to law school and my MBA program in two different schools in Jacksonville, Florida, moved back to Washington after law school. And now actually, this is so exciting. This is a relatively new development. I've been offered a position to teach as an adjunct at my undergrad alma mater. So I get to teach business law starting this fall at the college that I attended. 

Louis Goodman 02:20 

What was it like transitioning from the Pacific Northwest to Florida? I mean, you just couldn't have a different kind of climate to be in on a number of different levels. 

Josh Brumley 02:33 

I don't come from means. And moving to Florida was incredibly difficult thing for me to figure out on my own. And when I got there, I bought a car for $500, and it didn't have air conditioning, and the gas gauge was broken on it. And I ran out of gas. And I remember walking from where my car broke down in a suit in Florida weather to the appointment I had at the law school with a professor to go over my writing assignment. And when I got there, I was drenched. I, you know, pressure makes diamonds. So it's a fun story to reflect on how far I've come. I'll never own a car without air conditioning again, hopefully. And you know, it builds character. You appreciate the small things when you have them taken away from you like that. 

Louis Goodman 03:21 

When did you first start thinking about being a lawyer? 

Josh Brumley 03:25 

I kind of was always a business guy and I kind of always knew that I wanted to run my own business. I just didn't know what that was going to be. I met my father much later in my life and he was a lawyer and that was sort of the impetus for me dipping my toe into law school. I had absolutely no idea if I was going to like being a lawyer, but I was a musician prior to law school and the idea of performance and being the center of attention while I'm on the stage is the same feeling I got doing legal arguments and doing debates and things like that. So I said, maybe this is a great fit for what I want to do. And I'm a businessperson first and a lawyer second, having that completely different understanding of the profession has helped me, I think, to excel.

My practice is doing very, very well. I think at last count. I had something like 40 staff and it's, it's a remarkable practice. I’m very, very lucky to be where I'm at right now. And it's only gone up from here. 

Louis Goodman 04:39 

Can you tell us a little bit about the situation where you met your father late in life?

Josh Brumley 04:44 

Yeah. So my father and my mother were never married. And after my mom got pregnant, she, dad just joined the army and left. And kind of a deadbeat dad situation where I found him later on the internet and just kind of cold called him. And after cold calling him, started to develop a relationship with him that eventually helped me to get the push I needed to get into law school.

Louis Goodman 05:16 

How's that? 

Josh Brumley 05:17 

It's a longer than 30 minutes story. He was a lawyer. We were so similar, that whole nature versus nurture idea, you know, that I was raised by my mom still was so much more like my father when I met him and spoke to him for the first time, I thought if it works for this guy, it must work for me, so I tried it and here I am nine years later, just loving every moment of it. I couldn't be happier. 

Louis Goodman 05:45 

What sort of musician are you? What's kind of, what instrument do you play? 

Josh Brumley 05:49 

I play bass guitar, and I was in some not super talented punk bands. It wasn't anything technically musical as much as just kind of silly garage bands, but we did some tours and made a lot of friends and that was really, I think a big part of my growth as like a real confidence builder for me was being on stage and, and being around friends in a way that I could, I could heckle and be heckled and it wasn't the end of the world and, and you develop real thick skin going and being a musician and touring in places you've never been before. And that is something that I think has helped me a lot in my legal career as well.

I love public speaking. I love being in the public eye, I guess, in court. And I think a lot of personal injury attorneys lack that skill set. I think a lot of criminal defense attorneys excel at that because you have to be in court so frequently that you start to forget that it's actually court. You're just, it's just a casual conversation with you, the prosecutor and the judge. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure behind it, but the facts are the facts and you got a position to argue and so does the prosecutor and those positions are usually opposed to each other and you can still be cordial and professional and have your position for your client and that's sort of the, the takeaway I got from, from being a practicing criminal defense attorney. And that's what I bring to the plaintiff's bar. 

Louis Goodman 07:25 

Can you give us a brief history of your career coming out of law school, getting a job where you work, Public Defender's Office, and how you got from that situation into this very successful personal injury practice that you now run?

Josh Brumley 07:44 

Yeah. So right out of law school, I wasn't sure what I was going to do. Like I said, I moved away to Florida. I was in Florida for three years, got my MBA while I was in law school, two separate colleges, one in daytime, one at night. And I got both degrees in the three years and moved straight back.

And when I moved back, I didn't really have a network in Seattle. And all my network for, for my legal profession was during law school was in Florida. But I knew that I wanted to come back here. This is where my family was, and so when I got back, I just kind of had to start networking anywhere I could, and I started working for the Social Security Administration and volunteering for some clinics, and I hated working at the Social Security Administration.

I would get there at 8:30 in the morning and, and just sit at my desk and think. Don't look at the clock. Don't look at the clock. Don't look at the clock and then look at the clock and it would only be like 907 and be like damn it I still have like seven and a half hours to go and it was every single day like that I've never had a job that I was so unhappy doing.

I've had plenty of jobs where I was, you know, okay with them. I've never really been someone who is excited about, you know, going to work until this and until being my own boss and the difference between the valley of working in the Social Security Administration being so depressed to go to work every single day and the peak that I am still living on nine years later of running my own practice is I can't even describe it I think people who have felt it will understand it and people who have been in jobs that they absolutely just can't do anymore will understand it but to go from one end of the spectrum to the other end of the spectrum was maybe what I needed.

And I think a lot of people live their life in that middle ground where they're just content enough to keep doing something that they don't really love, but it pays the bills and they're not so unhappy that they're going to take the risk of finding something else. And I think I probably would have been in that same boat.

If the Social Security Administration was a fun place to work, damn, if it wasn't, and I just couldn't stand it anymore. And that's what pushed me into just rolling the dice on myself and hanging my own shingle. So I just networked everywhere I could. I met every attorney I could. I said, teach me anything you can teach me.

I'll work nights and weekends just after my social security job, just learning from you. And that passion, you know, caught people's attention. And I got offered some part time positions working for a Public Defender and a family law attorney. And I just learned everything I could from both of them until I was taking cases on my own.

Louis Goodman 10:42 

So obviously you really like practicing law, certainly the way you're practicing it now. Well, what is it about that practice that you really like? What is it that excites you about being a lawyer? 

Josh Brumley 10:55 

I think it's negotiation. I think negotiation is truly the most exciting part of what I do. Getting a good result for a client, no matter what the practice area is, is such a winning feeling that it becomes like an addiction and you want to have that for every single client. And when you can't get there, it's like personally frustrating and you get really tied into these people's lives. And to not get the results that you want through negotiations and then have to take a case to arbitration or trial, and then hopefully get the result that your client deserves is a wonderful feeling.

And you know, that when you don't get the result that you wanted, it’s a personal defeat and you have to pick yourself up and learn from those mistakes. And that's something that you get with experience, you know, you gotta work in and work these cases up the right way and do everything you can to get the results that your clients deserve.

Louis Goodman 11:58 

If a young person were coming out of college, would you recommend going into the law? 

Josh Brumley 12:03 

I love it. I recommend it to my staff. I have staff that I've hired from the paralegal programs that I teach in, and I have one legal assistant who handles all my minor settlements. His name's Isaac. Shout out to Isaac. He is taking the LSAT on Saturday. 

And, you know, I joke, but I tell him all the time he's abandoning ship and he's going to go, go away to law school to be an attorney and we wish him the best, but he's going to leave a Isaac sized hole in my law firm that no other legal assistant will be able to fill. And that'll be real tough for us, but we encourage it because we know that he's going to do great things. And I think that's an important thing for a boss to do is encourage that professional development. And if it's not in the law, that's okay, but I really, I want people working at my business who have the same passion I do for what we're doing.

And if people get in and they start learning and they say, Hey, this is not for me, it's no hard feelings. I'd like them to leave because I don't want to invest in someone who's going to be unhappy staying here. I'm so excited to do this work and that's what I'm looking for is people who are as passionate as I am to do the work that we're doing here because that leads to better results.

Louis Goodman 13:23 

You said you have about 40 people on your staff are any of those people, attorneys, or are you the only attorney at the firm? 

Josh Brumley 13:32 

There's one other attorney, his name is Brian. And we have a staff that includes, you know, a marketing team and social media team, and a lot of different people that help us to generate the cases and the relationships that we need to cultivate to generate, you know, regular cases coming in with the staff, this large, we, we have a significant payroll expense and, and that's the business person in me.

I think, I think a lot of lawyers are just kind of doing it wrong, buying billboards and I don't want to tip my hand too much, but I don't, I don't know anyone who hired an attorney from a billboard because they were on a billboard. I don't think when someone's in a car accident, they're looking around for the nearest billboard.

And so using that expensive method of marketing is maybe more of a brand recognition play than a new case lead generation play. And so if you're going to spend your marketing budget on, on something, it's hopefully not a billboard. 

Louis Goodman 14:34 

Well, let's talk a little bit about the business of practicing law and how that's gone for you. It sounds like it's gone quite well. Maybe you could share with us a little bit about the business aspect of it. 

Josh Brumley 14:47 

Yeah, I love data and I think that tracking data is something that lawyers don't do. It's crazy to me how many lawyers in my practice area, personal injury specifically, don't have practice management software. They're using like Excel spreadsheets and stuff like that to keep track of their clients. 

Louis Goodman 15:07 

What practice management software do you use? 

Josh Brumley 15:10 

I use Case Peer, but I'm actually, developing my own practice management software to, to get away from Case Peer. So I actually don't even recommend Case Peer.

Hopefully they're listening to this because I reached out to their company and I said, Hey, I have some, some ways that this program could be better. And I'll bankroll the changes. I'll pay for your engineer's time to change it. And I believe the program will be more beneficial and more attorneys will want to use it if you implement these changes.

And they said, no, thank you. And I said, all right, well, so I'm just going to use that budget to build my own. And because if you can't change the program that I'm hoping to scale to the level that I need to grow to, I don't want to build with you. 

Louis Goodman 15:58 

What do you use practice management software for? How does it help your practice? And how does it help you keep track of the statistics that you feel are important to track? 

Josh Brumley 16:10 

The short answer with the programs that exist right now is that they don't. And that's why I felt like I needed to build my own. There are metrics that I need to track that no practice management software is tracking.

Louis Goodman 16:23 

Like what, what metrics do you want to track? 

Josh Brumley 16:26 

So I have a marketing team and I think a lot of attorneys don't have that. My marketing team will use a completely different software for lead generation and for tracking the conversion and marketing touches that they have with different potential lead sources.

And so that is like a Salesforce side of what we're doing and then we have the case management side, but that's two separate monthly subscriptions of software and that doesn't make any sense to me because if I'm working on metrics and KPIs in HubSpot or Salesforce or all these other marketing programs and I can't see that same data or my team can't see the data that's in my practice management software, then I got to pay for two seats for one person on these two separate platforms and have them bounce back and forth.

So it's really frustrating, but that's one of the main things. I think that visual metrics of how someone is doing... 

Louis Goodman 17:34 

KPI, can you define that for us? 

Josh Brumley 17:36 

Yeah, KPI is key performance indicator. It's just the idea of a metric. If if you want to sign up five new cases this month, Louis, your goal for the month is five zero out of five is is that metric's current progress. So if the, if the KPIs, your key performance indicators for your whole firm are, I want to get five new cases. Well, right now, if it's just you on that team, you've got to go generate those five new cases. But what if you had a marketing person and that marketing person was supposed to get those five new leads?

And you paid that marketing person a thousand dollars a month. And at a thousand dollars a month for five leads, that's 200 a lead. That seems pretty good. If they were not able to generate those leads, you paid a thousand dollars to get zero leads. So tracking what the progress is for what you're paying for is super important when you're dealing with people and understanding what your expectations are of them helps them to do their job better.

And so without that visibility on each individual's role, the employees maybe are just assuming they know what you need them to do instead of actually knowing what you need them to do. And that gets more complicated depending on which role you're talking about. You noticed I spoke about marketing because that's really like the easiest role to identify and track KPIs.

But as you start to get into litigation, how do you track a paralegal's success when the needs of the business change from day to day? And I should track a bigger picture over a bigger period of time and then divide it up monthly to just see where we're at to make sure we're getting to where we need to be quarter over quarter.

Because when you start running the law firm like a business, you start to say, well, maybe there are cases that I shouldn't take. Maybe there are cases that will cost me more money than I'll gain, and I lose the opportunity to take cases that I don't know might come. And when you start to look at that data and realize that the profits or losses that are generating from certain cases, you can start to forecast and say, okay, well, if my sales data is telling me X and I want it to be Y, what do I need to change to get there? Is it costs? Is it income? Everyone wants to make more income, but some of our expenses are variable where the more income we're making, the more the cost goes up too. And so understanding how your costs are affected by generating more income, that might not be the right move for your business.

And making those goals and sitting down as the owner of the business and saying, how can I maybe spend more, more time running the business than I currently am, super important for every business owner, and I think that the, a lot of attorneys just aren't passionate about that side of it, and that's what stops them from going from solo practice with, you know, one paralegal to large firms.

But I've got my eyes on, on taking over the whole state of Washington here. So that's what I'm doing. 

Louis Goodman 21:04 

Well, in your endeavor to take over the whole state of Washington, how do you decide how much time to spend on sort of the classic practice of law in terms of, you know, going to court, representing clients, taking depositions, that sort of thing versus working on the business side?

Josh Brumley 21:25 

You know, that is a conversation that every single week I think changes. The goal is to get to the point where I'm not actually in court, although I love it and I love the practice of law. I think I've got to choose, you know, and you don't get to be the CEO and the guy in court. And that's a really tough thing to think about because I went to law school to be a lawyer, not to sit behind my desk and, you know, read metrics.

But at a certain point, I need to be the business owner and not the guy just operating the business. And so having a really strong litigator like like the guy that's working with me here and developing a team of people who can support these cases when I don't have the capacity to really important and and that control shift is is something that I currently am dealing with. As you develop these metrics you're able to keep an eye on the business without being the guy working on every single case. 

Louis Goodman 22:33 

In the introduction, I mentioned that you have written a book and I've read a few chapters of it, that your team was kind enough to send me. I'm wondering if you could talk about the book a little bit. What prompted you to write it when it's coming out and what it's about?

Josh Brumley 22:53 

Yeah. Yeah. So I am writing a book and the book is completely written now. It's been about a year of work. It's about 11 chapters and it's called Protect Your Neck and it's keys to maximizing your car accident case. It's meant for people who are already going through this process, but I think that everyone would benefit from reading it before they're in a car accident because you never know when it's going to happen, and that's really the scariest part of car accidents is like no one expects to leave their parking lot and be t-boned on their way home, but that's when it's going to happen, and we don't have any control over it, and so educating people on an industry that historically is very complicated and is intended to be complicated for a reason.

So people don't know what their rights are in these insurance industries can, can really take advantage of that lack of knowledge. It's just really frustrating. So I wrote a book to help educate people on the process before they're in the process. 

Louis Goodman 24:02 

What's the name of the book? 

Josh Brumley 24:04 

Protect Your Neck.

Louis Goodman 24:06 

Protect Your Neck. Okay. What do you think is the best advice that you've ever received and or what advice would you give to a young attorney just starting out in practice? 

Josh Brumley 24:19 

Someone once told me when I was having a really hard time that it can't rain every day. And that is a quote that I think about a lot because... 

Louis Goodman 24:30 

Even in Seattle? 

Josh Brumley 24:31 

Yeah, even in Seattle, you know, it's going to be 80 degrees this Saturday out here. Don't tell anyone. We like everyone thinking that it rains all the time here but the idea that can't rain every day is something that's so powerful to me because It's really easy to focus on what's wrong instead of focus on what you can control. If you're having a bad day and it seems like everything's going wrong, there's nothing you can do to stop what's happening around you. All you can control is what you can control and just know that tomorrow is another day and it's going to start hopefully like one of your best days ever. So don't focus on the rain, focus on the fact that it can't rain every day and just keep moving, keep pushing forward. And, and hopefully whatever you're dealing with just gets better.

And it's been a real test to, to grow a business to the level that it is right now. And there have been days, you know, early on where I was like, how am I going to make payroll? And you have to make really good decisions with the money that's coming in, especially in a personal injury practice, because it's not steady stream of payments from people, you know, you get a check and then you might not get one for a little while that that level of practice was really. A tough transition for me, for someone who is doing family law and business law and criminal defense. And I was generating all the revenue and then all of a sudden it was like, okay, well, we're going to shift to this whole other practice area where the money is not going to come in as regularly.

And you'll get a check and you'll get the attorney's fees and it'll be significant, but you got to work up the cases on the front end and you got to do the work on the front end. And then you don't get paid for six months, a year, two years. So building that practice took time. But being a smart business owner and, and doing it the right way is, is how I got here.

So that advice of it can't rain every day. It's okay to feel tested and it's okay to feel overwhelmed, but know, especially if you're in a position where you're leading people that. You need to be a leader and, and it's okay to be overwhelmed privately, but out there publicly and with your staff, you've got to have a plan to get through even the toughest times.

Louis Goodman 26:54 

What, if anything, would you change about the way the legal system works? 

Josh Brumley 26:59 

COVID changed a lot for us with allowing for virtual hearings. And I was still doing criminal defense actually, at some point during COVID and it's remarkable the changes that technology have brought to the legal field have been forced onto the legal field and now people don't have to fly out for depositions.

That concept is so crazy that people used to catch planes to go to depositions and now we just log in on our computer and thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars on some cases are saved from virtual depositions and virtual mediations and arbitrations that are happening virtually. And it's crazy to see what AI is bringing to the table.

Louis Goodman 27:46 

What do you see AI bringing to the table? 

Josh Brumley 27:49 

I think that there is a lot that our industry could benefit by leaning into that. And I think that the insurance industries already are. 

Louis Goodman 27:58 

Can you be specific about that? You know? Where you see things going, how you see the insurance industry using it, how you see attorneys like yourself using it?

Josh Brumley 28:07 

Artificial intelligence is this idea that with a lot of data, we can predict what might happen, right? And, and so owning that data, the insurance companies have this mass amount of, of data for how much claims are valued, how many attorneys file lawsuits, which attorneys don't file lawsuits, and those attorneys will get Less valuable offers because the insurance companies can share this information with each other and know what an attorney's track record is at trial or the fact that they never file a lawsuit.

This information, incredibly valuable helps to shape their businesses. And plaintiff's attorneys don't like to share if they're not litigators, you know, they keep that secret. They don't want people to know if they're a little bit of a settlement mill. And if they're honing tools, that help with data collection or maybe finding a way for plaintiffs collectively to have access to each other's data, maybe not specific client data, but injuries that resulted in certain settlement values.

The way that the insurance companies share that information, I think that the plaintiff's bar could collectively unify in a way that that really challenges insurance companies to a level that they've never been challenged before. 

Louis Goodman 29:39 

Do you think the legal system is fair? 

Josh Brumley 29:42 

I think the legal system is fair. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I've not been doing it long enough to see true injustice be done. But I also think that where I'm at is a very progressive place in the, in the country. And maybe I have a different outlook on things than I would if I lived somewhere else, but I'm very happy with the system that we have here in Seattle.

I think justice is a moving target. And so, you know, we have to keep moving towards what society thinks is, is reasonable, and that's not going to stay the same. I think that the jury system is really tough because we pay people pennies to leave their work and wonder why only retired folks show up for jury duty, but that's something that hopefully, you know, in our lifetime, we'll, we'll see that update.

Louis Goodman 30:37 

I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what your family life has been like and how practicing law has affected that and how any family life has affected your practice of law.? Talk a little bit about the work life balance for you. 

Josh Brumley 30:51 

Well, I am a gosh, I think I'm 38 today and I have a dog. And I'm single and looking, so, you know, this is an audio only podcast, but if you could see me, I was, I'm relatively... 

Louis Goodman 31:06 

Great looking guy, great looking guy! 

Josh Brumley 31:10 

Thank you, Louis. I didn't want to say it myself because then I sound vain, but if you say it, then it's okay. So if that lends itself to an answer. I mean, this business is my entire life and I love what I do and I do it every single weekend and I make time for myself and for my family. But, but I think it's a lot harder to run a business to the level that I'm running it. If I had small children, for example. And so I understand that that makes it difficult for people to take that jump into entrepreneurship because they've got a family that that depends on a steady income and that was something that I did at a time in my life where I could risk just eating top ramen for an entire month if that's what it took, but it, it honestly never was that for me.

It was, it was something that I was prepared for, but it wasn't. But that betting on myself, part of it was the drive that I needed to, to make sure I never had to just eat top ramen. 

Louis Goodman 32:08 

How about recreational pursuits? Anything you enjoy doing to get your mind off of the practice of law once in a while?

Josh Brumley 32:16 

I'm going to be on the boat all Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, if I can, I I'm out on the water and enjoying nature here as much as, as much as I can, me and my dog. And I really love the Pacific Northwest. We have a beautiful mix of mountains and forest and ocean and everything that you could ever need.

Louis Goodman 32:37 

What sort of boat do you have? 

Josh Brumley 32:39 

I'm a member of a boat club where I actually get to go out on the company boats, anywhere that has one of these, one of these locations. So in LA, there's like six marinas I can go out of when I come visit LA. I've gone out in New York and Florida. And so I don't actually own a boat. I'm just a member of this boat kind of timeshare company. It's a really, really cool concept where I don't have to pay for, I don't have to gas it up. I don't have to pay for maintenance. And I get to go travel somewhere and then feel like an explorer when I go out on a boat on a waterway that I've never been on in my entire life. I love it. 

Louis Goodman 33:23 

Have you ever had a near death experience? 

Josh Brumley 33:26 

I have, I played music, like I mentioned, and my band had some shows in Honolulu, in Hawaii. And before our first day of shows, we were at this beach called Sandy Beach. Locals call it Breakneck Beach. And it's, it's a beach that's very famous for huge waves that pick you up and throw you back on the beach. A really famous North shore beach that local people like to go to, but not a lot of tourists know about. And the rip tide kind of pulled me away from the group and I kept floating farther and farther away from the beach. And it was, it was incredibly scary and I'm a poor swimmer to begin with. The tide pulled me out so far and I fought so hard that I just gave up.

I actually remember saying I cannot swim anymore and putting my arms up above my head and just sinking. And a stranger that I didn't even see. On a surfboard, swam up behind me, pulled me out of the water and dragged me back to shore. And I remember him saying, kick your feet, brother. And I started kicking my feet and then he plopped me down on the sand.

And before I could even catch my breath and breath and say, thank you. He had gotten back into the water and continued surfing. And so never got to thank that guy. He didn't care about a thank you or reward or anything that I had to offer. And he just cared about surfing. I almost ruined that for him that day by being a dork and swimming too far out from shore.

Louis Goodman 35:03 

Let's say you came into some real money, 3 or 4 billion dollars. What, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

Josh Brumley 35:11 

I don't know. I'd probably invest it all in building the business the way that I am right now. And for better or worse, just be more obnoxiously on, you know, TV commercials and billboards and stuff like that everywhere for my business.

I think I'm very content with the money that we're making right now. Personal money that I'm making right now and everything that I do, I just do to grow the business to the next level and attract more A players to my team. And so if I had that kind of money, I'd say, how can I, how can I use that to push my business to the next level and three more levels after that? 

Louis Goodman 35:54 

Let's say you had a magic wand, there was one thing in the world, the legal world, or otherwise that you could change. What would that be? 

Josh Brumley 36:01 

If I could wave a magic wand and change the world's immigration policies to not be so specifically hell bent on just an imaginary border between The US and Canada, the US and Mexico, other countries in the United States. If there was a way that I could make people care less about what country they were born in, that they have no control over and people care more about the character of people that they're interacting with, I think the world would be a better place. 

Louis Goodman 36:35 

Let's say you had 60 seconds on the Super Bowl, Super Bowl ad, what would you want to say to that big audience?

Josh Brumley 36:43 

I'd probably do something with me and my dog, and it would probably be just something really goofy. 

Louis Goodman 36:49 

Josh, what is the best way to get in touch with you? If someone wants to call you for representation or another attorney wants to call to kind of pick your brain, what's the best way to get in contact with Joshua Brumley? 

Josh Brumley 37:07 

Well, I think if you're interested in talking with me, learning about my firm, learning about my podcast, learning about my book, it's all in one place. And that's the Brumley law firm website, www.brumleylawfirm.com. And that's just like my last name, B R U M L E Y. 

Louis Goodman 37:27 

Josh, is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't discussed? Anything at all that you'd like to bring up anything that you want to talk about? 

Josh Brumley 37:35 

Nothing for me. No, I think this has been a really fun conversation and real insightful stuff where I get to talk about AI and my dog in the same podcast. So you love, you love that mix and I appreciate you inviting me to be on the show list.

Louis Goodman 37:50 

Joshua Brumley. Thank you so much for joining me today on the Love Thy Lawyer podcast. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. 

Josh Brumley 37:57 

Thank you for having me. 

Louis Goodman 37:58 

That's it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend and follow the podcast. If you have comments or suggestions, send me an email.

Take a look at our website at lovethylawyer.com where you can find all of our episodes, transcripts, photographs, and information. Thanks to my guests and to Joel Katz for music, Brian Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media, and Tracy Harvey. I'm Louis Goodman.

Josh Brumley 38:39 

That is a tough question.